Heartlessness of Socialized Medicine in Canada

re: Heartlessness of Socialized Medicine in Canada

shizuka — Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:18:39 GMT

Who is film maker Stuart Browning working for? His rant at the end of this piece against Democrats makes me highly suspicious.

As a dual citizen I am highly qualified to comment on healthcare in both countries. The system is not perfect in Canada, but how about the 45 million Americans without any healthcare at all? And how about the uncounted millions that are underinsured, or who have only hazard insurance, or work at jobs they hate because they cannot afford to be without benefits?

Many lies are told about the Canadian system, primarily to scare Americans off, I suspect. As a Canadian user I was able to see naturopaths and acupuncturists and never waited for anything. None of my aged relatives in Ontario, heavy users of the system, have ever waited for anything and have all gotten the best of care, as well as great preventative care.

In this country I've met people who have had to make the choice between food and doctor, a choice no Canadian ever has to make.

Shame on this country for failing its people so miserably.

And shame on you, Dr. Mercola, for not taking a closer look at this film maker's agenda and seeing the film for the piece of propaganda it is.

re: Heartlessness of Socialized Medicine in Canada

borntoteach — Wed, 27 Dec 2006 23:47:34 GMT

While I agree that there is much to be done about the health care system in Canada, I do not believe that you are getting the viewpoint of the vast majority of Canadians. First, each province has differing levels of Private health care. In B.C. for example, a MRI could be done as quickly as your subject was able to get it done in Buffalo. Second, in Canada we hear of "horror stories" about the US system, where if you can't pay you don't get treated. I would venture that these stories are as rare as those quoted in your article about the Canadian Health System. In fact, the system has worked very well for the majority of people in Canada and we have a majority of Doctors who are caring, incredible and knowledgeable in their fields. It's not perfect but it does work for the most part.

re: Heartlessness of Socialized Medicine in Canada

Life Enthusiast — Wed, 27 Dec 2006 00:28:43 GMT

There is a fundamental misunderstanding of what constitutes health care versus sick care. It is true that Canadian government "health" insurance covers medical care, and nobody gets to jump the queue. But naturopathic care is always available (at full price) to all who want to actually focus on healing instead of suppressing symptoms. There is a two tiered health care in Canada, one for people who go to the insured allopathic care, and the other for people who pay for their own preventive naturopathic/chiropractic care.

Is it not time we stopped fiddling with tactical problems and put our focus on the strategic issues? We are all going to go broke chasing the symptoms and fixing the "problems".

Martin
http://www.life-enthusiast.com

re: Heartlessness of Socialized Medicine in Canada

TrueBlue — Tue, 26 Dec 2006 20:21:56 GMT

I assume Mr. McCreith was joking when he said medical care in Canada is free. We pay for it dearly as part of Provincial income taxes and, in some provinces, through health care premiums. Also, in "have not" provinces, the federal government provides Transfer payments, part of which may also go towards health care costs. It is true that there are some problems with the universal health care system (for one, my wife has been receiving treatment by a U.S. doctor (at our expense) for 4 years now due to the inadequate treatment received in this province). There is no doubt in my mind that there would be problems in any system, but I do support the Alberta government taking a stand, telling the feds where to "stick it", and beginning to institute a two-tier system.

Do you think the Prime Minister would have to wait 8 months for an MRI? Or some prominent businessman's wife would have to wait 15 months for a hip replacement? Not likely. Even professional football players and hockey players can get tests and operations done (in Canada) within days - if this isn't "jumping the queue", then I don't know what is - I would rather have an official two-tier system in place, and discontinue the practice of the government(s) spending more and more (of our money) to support a failing universal health care system.

re: Heartlessness of Socialized Medicine in Canada

Wilma_203 — Tue, 26 Dec 2006 16:25:13 GMT

After watching this video on "The Heartlessness of the Candian Health Care"

all I can say is "What a piece of crap - it's full of lies, deceipt and propaganda. The couple in the video say the live in Newmarket which is about 15 min from me, and I know what they are saying about waiting 4-1/2 month for an MRI is totally not true.

My husband went to see his NEW doctor Nov. 9th because he wasn't feeling well. The doctor sent him for blood tests, 6 days later he was sent for more blood tests and a fecal test, which revealed blood in his stool. Two week later he had a colonoscopy and 8 days later a C.Scan. He has seen a surgeon and is having surgery after the new year. All this care was in the course of 6-7 weeks. When he went to the doctor, he wasn't in pain, he was just feeling tired and lethargic. So can you imagine if he had a brain tumor, do you really think they would tell him he has to wait 8months for surgery. I have lived in Canada for 40years of my life, and I have never, ever heard of anyone not getting care. Something I can't say of the US. If we were still in the states, my husband probably wouldn't even have gone to the doctor until it was too late.

So before people in the medical field, the insurance field or the drug industry go spouting off they should do their research better, maybe visit the country they condemn, talk to the general population. I have yet to meet any Canadian who would trade our system for yours.

When we lived in the US, we were self employed, and could only afford catastrophic health care at a cost of $285 monthly, with a $10,000 deductible. If we wanted the same type of care we have here in Ontario, it would have cost us $1,000-$1,200 a month, because of our age, and it would go up yearly. In 2002 I had a minor health problem that took me to the emergency room, and needed a month of follow-up care, when it was over it cost me $10,000 out-of-pocket money. At that point we decided we needed to come back to Canada, because if anything serious happened it would bankrupt us.

As my doctor here says "People should not be impoverished just to receive good health care".

Americans you need to rise up and demand a better system of care!!! If George Bush and his administration can spend billions killing innocent people and wasting money on useless defence, he can spare some for the citizens of America.

re: Heartlessness of Socialized Medicine in Canada

Shellianne — Tue, 26 Dec 2006 16:08:47 GMT

This video is blatently propagandist in selling privatized health care. I am Canadian, and my mother is Swedish. My son lives & works in Australia, and my sister in Great Britain. All these countries have socialized medicine. While living & working in these countries, our families and ourselves have all received excellent emergency and continuing care throughout our lives. The health care we receive is not - as the film infers - "free". Every Canadian citizen pays taxes which, when collected together, provide the funds to pay for the care of those who become ill. The rich pay more taxes, thus contribute more to the pot. Of course, there will always be individual circumstances where a person does not receive the care they require, and this should not happen. But compared to the innumberable deaths that occur in countries where people cannot afford any health care, because they must pay - I am certain that the unnecessary death rates would be much lower in countries with socialized medicine. The Canadian system is, at present, experiencing definite problems, howere. These seem to be due to the government trying to run the health care system like a business, which has resulted in top-heavy management and too few qualified workers,much more bureauracracy and heavier patient loads for over-worked and underpaid health care professionals. In addition, in the 1980's the government thought there would be a surplus of health care professionals, so it cut back funding and admissions to medical and nursing colleges - resulting in far fewer doctors and nurses being trained and graduating. As a result of this short-sighted decision, we now have a serious shortage of trained medical professionals available. problem, Resolving these problems will take time and public input and money, but socialized medicine is still working better than any other health care system in the world, in my opinion. I have heard of so many American families bankrupted by one member's illness, when they do not happen to be one of those lucky ones who have a job with full health care insurance benefits. I am disappointed that Dr. Mercola would promote a video that is so one-sided and unbalanced in a discussion of health care. Health care is a human right that every single person is entitled to access. It is not just for those who have enough money to pay for it.

re: Heartlessness of Socialized Medicine in Canada

grant135 — Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:17:57 GMT

The Canadian Health Care system may not be perfect but I wouldn't trade it for the one in the US. A family of four pays approximately $1000 per year for complete coverage. Much of the time health care is either partially or fully paid for by by employers as a benefit. I am self employed and do not have personal health care but I am protected through my wifes health care coverage at her place of employment. Seniors are not required to pay for health care services and their perscriptions are subsidized.

In May of 06, I was diagnosed with esophageal cancer. I went from GP to GI to surgery in 28 days. My diagnosis included Xrays, a CT, a PET and an Ultrasoud. Total cost to me "Nada". Zero Dollars. Plus my perscriptions cost a fraction of the same medicine in the US and you can buy insurance to cover that.

In Alberta we are fighting to have the option of socialized medicine and private healthcare. The federal Liberal government cut off medical transfer payment to Alberta becuase we allow private health care to exist in Alberta. Fortunately Alberta could buy the Federal Government so it really didn't matter to us.

Now with a Conservative Federal Government there is renewed hope that Canadians will be granted a choice of health care programs.

As a Canadian I like our system but would like to be able to suppliment it with private health care insurance to prevent having to wait for somethings such as hip replacement.

For vital services there is no waiting period in Alberta.

re: Heartlessness of Socialized Medicine in Canada

mmc88121 — Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:40:57 GMT

The United States has a very flawed 2-tier system. Medicaid pays for "health care" for the poor and in some states for the uninsured. Hopefully, those with a job have one that provides health insurance, if not you are in hot water if you have a major illness. Both of these systems are tied into the pharmaceutical industry. When natural cures tend to be looked down upon as "old wives tales" or unreliable sources, from incompetent practicioners.

mmc88121

re: Heartlessness of Socialized Medicine in Canada

Dex — Mon, 18 Dec 2006 15:47:12 GMT

The problem with policy makers as decision makers is that people who make the decisions for your healthcare are not qualified to weigh the factors, risks, and dangers that impact lives. Decisions that require immediate attention cannot be subject to red tape.

Is it simplistic to say a responsible healthcare system must have provisions for choice? A real danger is a one-size-fits-all mentality that determines what is needed for everyone is mandatory for every individual. It creates such ludicrous scenarios as hepatitis drops for every newborn, even if monogamous parents know there is no hepatitis risk. Would such a system be even more antagonistic against people who take responsibility for their own health decisions? For example, how does social medicine deal with parents who refuse to immunize their children, after one or two of them become autistic from mercury in thermosol-preserved vaccines?

Uninformed policymakers as decision-makers force ill-conceived mandates on the public, such as water supply fluoridation, without consideration of risks or dangers, much less the waste of our resources. Rather than considering opposing viewpoints, officials ridicule critics as dissidents.

There are a lot of questions that demand answers before the public rushes to adopt socialized healthcare. We should be wary of any system that doesn’t recognize the need for choice and individual responsibility.

re: Heartlessness of Socialized Medicine in Canada

Pat Ormsby — Mon, 18 Dec 2006 10:57:47 GMT

In Japan, we have the best of both systems. There are doctors off of the medical insurance system who charge a lot but take a real interest in their patients. The salaried doctors, meanwhile, are generally too busy to care, listen to your symptoms for less than a minute, then prescribe you something you probably do not need, but they're just the ticket for broken bones. With an epidemic of diabetes here, however, I wonder how long the government will be able to afford putting so many people on dialysis, which is what happens when patients follow the standard advice, and the medical industry pockets the profits. The key anywhere is to take charge of your own health. This site has many good tools for that.

re: Heartlessness of Socialized Medicine in Canada

boo — Sun, 17 Dec 2006 15:06:47 GMT

While there are some good points in the film, let's keep it in perspective.

Canadians are the 12th longest-living people in the world (80.22) and Americans are #47 (77.85). This should give pause before we talk about how heartless the system that keeps its citizens alive longer is. In fact, the average Bosnian lives longer than the average American.

Anticipating an argument about American lifespans being lower due to the diversity of the population, it doesn't hold because Canada takes in more immigrants per capita than the US does.

These stats from www.nationmaster.com.

re: Heartlessness of Socialized Medicine in Canada

Aleahsa — Sun, 17 Dec 2006 07:00:47 GMT

Regarding Ontario Health System and allowing Private Care User Pay health care......

I've always had this view on the subject......

If my family member needed an MRI but the wait in Ontario for the test was going to be 3 months, I would be very very happy to allow all the rich people who need MRI's at the same institution to take their big bucks $$$ and go to a private health service and pay for their MRI themselves.

It's plainly a WIN/WIN situation. The rich guy gets his test faster cause he is going to shell out $ from his pocket, drive to a private medical service in Ontario or in the U.S., and get his MRI faster, and the poor Ontario citizen who can't shell out $$ for their own test moves waaaay up in line for their MRI and in the long run gets their test a lot sooner. So, what's the problem ?

Let the rich folks go wherever they want and pay whatever they want to get these tests, treatments and proceedures, so the rest of us stiffs can then have the advantage of having our own medical tests, treatments and proceedures A WHOLE LOT SOONER.

If one of my children or grandchildren was in dire need of treatment or tests but was facing a long wait I'd sure be campaigning the people in line ahead of them and advising them they could get their treatment way faster if they go to XYZ Medical Facility and pay themselves.

The only people who don't seem to like this so-called 2 tier plan is political party members and MP's and I am still trying to figure out why they are so against it. I can't see how eliminating rich people from the waiting list affects either our own test or treatment , or the service provider or service provided...I just don't get what the fuss is all about.....oh...maybe somehow the government might lose money ???

re: Heartlessness of Socialized Medicine in Canada

sasha_3 — Sat, 16 Dec 2006 18:37:49 GMT

This film highlights the tragic shortcomings of the Canadian system. Why is their health care inadequate? Is it lack of funding, or lack of qualified personnel? The citizens of Canada will have to solve this dilemma themselves. I'm sure that Canadians with the financial means do not hesitate to utilize our health care system as needed.

As a self-employed person, I just received a notice that my health insurance premium is going up to $550 per month (a jump of $150) and this is for $2,000 deductible with no prescription drug coverage. With four more years until Medicare kicks in, and being a cancer survivor, I cannot be without health insurance. This is very depressing for me, as I am not a wealthy person.

This film ends with a dig at "Democrats" who are searching for an answer to the health care crisis in the U.S. At least they are trying to find an answer. Two of my friends (who vote Republican, by the way) have had burst appendix events in recent years. Neither had health insurance, both filed bankruptcy and did not pay their bill. So, who paid their bill? I guess I did, and the rest of my fellow citizens who have health insurance.

There has to be some middle ground here where we meet the health care needs of everyone. Should we step over the writhing bodies of the uninsured, such as my Republican friends, on our way into the Dr.'s office? I'm sure you will agree that we could not be that uncaring.

re: Heartlessness of Socialized Medicine in Canada

Sonagi — Sat, 16 Dec 2006 02:06:50 GMT

There must be a happy medium between a national health care system that forbids private care and puts patients on waiting lists and a disorganized health care system whose high costs are the biggest reason why people declare personal bankruptcy. A majority of those filers had health insurance at the beginning of their illnesses.